Secretary General Rutte: No. What I’m saying is that, in the end, the issue of the fact that the Russians are controlling, at this moment, factually, a part of Ukraine has to be on the table, that any discussion going forward from there will be with Ukrainians deciding on what they want to do in terms —
Margarete Brennan: Okay, because that sounds like you’re saying they don’t have to withdraw their troops.
Secretary General Rutte: Obviously, they have to, but factually, they are controlling a part of Ukraine at this moment, as you said. And as Ukrainians have said before, if a ceasefire discussion takes place as soon as possible, and hopefully negotiations on a peace deal, there will be the debate on how to take that forward, starting at the present line of contact. But it is crucial to know that when it comes to the future geopolitical situation of Ukraine, their sovereignty, there will be no infringement on that, and that it’s always Ukraine itself deciding on what they want to do or not want to do in terms of a peace deal. Läs intervjun